OK guys, let's talk about recording the piano. I mean, what technique do you often use: ORTF, XY, MS? Have you ever recorded the classical piano in the dead studio?
As for me, I mostly use ORTF pair of cardioids (dead studio recording) or onmis (hall) plus spaced pair in hall. Recently I tried XY (in studio) and I liked it more than ORTF. Maybe because of our special grand piano .
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Russian Academy of Music, Moscow

I've got very good results with two DPA4006 inside the piano and a MS farther in our hall (by ex. 414). But I'm waiting to try SASS mic as soon as I get it. Have you tried Blumlein in dead room ?

greetings from Finland

DPAs are perfect, but I've used them in ORTF pair about 1,5-2 m near the piano. Blumlein is good in acoustic spaces, where there're beautiful reflections, so it doesn't suite well for a dead room.
As for me, if I'm recording classical (not jazz or pop) piano I NEVER put mics inside of it, because of the special sound you get with these ones. But it's great for jazz/pop/rock music.
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Russian Academy of Music, Moscow

Just for it. I record and play classical music. And as a player I love to put the dpa inside. Of course they will be mixed with something else. I'm not purist but I have listened to so many piano recordings thet I exactly know what I want. In our conservatory concert hall we also used that configuration in live recording if that's Ok with players. This is a player point of view (listening) not audience.

About ORTF with omni DPA, I just do not get it. I have one time by mistake recorded an ensemble with DPA x/y !!. In fact it worked fine but as I think now about it sound funny. I mean polar response and angling mikes..

Omnis in XY? That really sounds funny
Though, the polar responce of omni on high frequencies is pretty directional
But why don't you get omnis in ORTF?
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Russian Academy of Music, Moscow

This may be impossible with your mic selection, but I've used an RCA BK5 ribbon mic in a piano and the sound was glorious! We also had an AKG 414 inside and a Nuemann TLM 103. These three in tandom created an amazingly huge piano sound. Good luck with this.


D-Bird

So for ortf I now used a crown SASS at 1m from piano and dpa in A/B at 5 m. The SASS stereo imaging is very sharp and flat in freq response. I have to cut a little from dpa´s lows because they are very sensible to air climatization by ex. and rumble.

You have a good approach ilya. Putting microphones very close to your piano won't give the results you want especially for classical recordings. Keep in mind that the piano’s sound fully develops about 4 feet away from the instruments body. So for classical recordings, where your aim is to create a realistic sound putting mics anywhere inside a 4 feet axis will not work.
The choice of mics could vary from engineer to engineer but it’s hugely dependant on the location of the instrument. Recording a piano in a dead anechoic room will not give you good results no matter what mics you use and where you put them. But since you have a piano trapped in a dead studio here is what I suggest.
Omnidirectional mics sound lovely on large instruments. That’s because they tent to respond more uniformly on all frequency ranges. Since your sound will lack character, as it’s in a small room, you’ll have to allow it to be recorded as “freely” as possible. Use a pair or omnidirectional-small diaphragm condensers like the DPA 4006, KM183 or SCHOEPS MK5. Put them on a stereo bar 2 feet apart, but straight (no angles needed) about 6 feet from the ground and position them, looking from the pianist’s position, at his “2 o’clock” facing him in a slight downward angle. The stand with the mics on should be at least 2m away from the piano. The piano should have full lead up. If you have a larges stick to open it even more it would be better. I hope that makes sense. That’s to start with. This technique might need some adjustment to achieve better stereo imaging. You might need to play with the angle of the bar (not the microphones’).

A

how many mics should be used for piano? i am going to be recording piano for the first time very soon....

i have 3 condensors (two pencil and one large diaphragm)

thanks!

It really depends on what microphones you've got. Two good quality omnidirectional condenser (small diaphragm) microphones should do the job just fine. However some people do use 3 mics some times. One large diaphragm on omni in the middle and two small condensers as a spaced pair on each side on cardioid. What's you room like?

it's actually a church sanctuary. we are wanting a fairly tight sound, and the room is pretty large, carpeted with many angles.

I don't know the brand, but it is a $15k grand and I'm excited to hear what we can get...

but the condensors are 2 samson CO2s and one M-Audio Luna. What would be the best placement in a large room for a full grand?

as for style, the music will be something along the lines of billy joel, elton john and some faster, poppier stuff like ben folds. (moderate rock piano...nothing really rocking, but there will be some very dynamic changes--)

I've never used the microphones you mentioned. I know they wouldn’t be my first choice for a piano recording. If it’s a commercial recording and there is some budget available it’s worth thinking about hiring some better microphones.
I’d recommend the Neumann KM184 on cardioid or omni and the Schoeps MK5. Amazing mics! I’m sure you’ll agree once you here them.
As for a technique I’d say if the church sound good try to capture ambient sound and see if that’s what you are looking for. If the natural ambience is not desirable try placing one mic on one end (have piano full lead up) aiming the high strings, about 4-5 feet away and the other one 3-4 feet apart from the other aiming the low strings (tail) facing the same way as the other one again 4-5 feet away.

Good luck!

A

well--we really dont have the budget or i'd already have better mics.

thanks for the help though, i'll definitely look into the aiming and setup of the mics you mentioned. thanks for the help and i'll report my results for sure!!!!

Hi there!
I'm from Ukraine,studying Soundengeneering in Graz!
I have to talk this Wendsday about recording the Piano for the "Recording-Technik 1" lesson!
I have some troubles and some question,cos I',m still not so good in this!Who can help me and explain some questions?

Hi MAXI!
Nice to see you here. I've met some guys from Gratz at the AES conventions
Feel free to ask your questions here, there're a lot of knoledgeable people here.
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Russian Academy of Music, Moscow