recently..my lecturer wanted me to do a research on any topic about speakers and mics..and i took a topic where i wanna develop a mic that picks up 100% from the sound source..

why i emphasize 100%?

cause as far as i know..i guess there arent any mic that is able to pick up/record a sound source 100%..it'll either get an unwanted noise from the background..or having weird sounds from electrical signals..

a good example is the mic for snare drums..most engineers have difficulty cutting out the hi hat noise where they only want the snare drum's sound..i know a mix can be done to eliminate the hi hat sound..but it would save more trouble if such a mic exist where it ONLY picks up the snare drum's sound and nothing else

this mic can be definitely used for any other purposes..etc live sound

so far..i made some research..some say that shotgun is the closest into doing that job..but its not 100%..does anyone here knows why and what's causing that trouble? im really new in this field..and i'll be more than glad if anyone can share with me about this issue..GOd bless!

Oh my... I wouldn't know where to begin explaining to you why that won't be possible....

I suggest you pick up a book or two on mics and start reading. Also, pick up a book on basic physics and study the principles of sound waves.
_________________
Bruce Valeriani - Mix Engineer

BlueBearSound wrote:

O Also, pick up a book on basic physics and study the principles of sound waves.

That's great!

hmm i appreciate that advice..but can i know at least why you say its not possible at all?sometimes there are thigns to some people who may think its impossible..but that doesnt conclude that it is really impossible to be done..and my lecturer has no say about it being impossible to be done..

btw..i do have some basic understanding on how sound moves and works..and i dont think its really that impossible..people say things are impossible because its against its nature..but well before engines were created..who would had thought that we could deny gravity and start flying so high with just an engine?if engines werent invent then..im sure we would say '' dont be mad..there's no way we're gona fly with just our hands you fool!''

no offence meant..its just my opinion


thanks for reading

I know that if you want to take 100% of source, you have to put your mic to an 1.5 times the source size , in distance... if you have a sound source that max surface got 1 meter, you have to put the mike like a 1.5 meters away, but imagine a drum set. Take this like... the whole drum set it is just one instrument... not the snare one, the kick one, the tom one..., the only one thing that i would do, is take all dynamics mic and very directional patterns and to some drum cases small diaphragms and would do a very close miking..., but i don't like this idea.

Sorry my english...
GOOD LUCK.
MARTIN

hmm..interesting..1.5times.. never heard of it..thanks for that info mudboy..i would try researching that out..

MUDBOY wrote:

I know that if you want to take 100% of source, you have to put your mic to an 1.5 times the source size , in distance... if you have a sound source that max surface got 1 meter, you have to put the mike like a 1.5 meters away, but imagine a drum set.

Sorry - not true.... 100% is impossible when then are multiple sound sources - there's is ALWAYS *some* bleed, no matter how close you get. Whether the bleed is significant or not depends on the application/context, but there is never 100% isolation unless the sound sources are physically isolated from each other.
_________________
Bruce Valeriani - Mix Engineer


Last edited by BlueBearSound on Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total

injustic3 wrote:

hmm i appreciate that advice..but can i know at least why you say its not possible at all?sometimes there are thigns to some people who may think its impossible..but that doesnt conclude that it is really impossible to be done..and my lecturer has no say about it being impossible to be done..

That's why I suggested you start reading.... you don't know what you don't know yet, so you're making assumptions about what you think will work without having all the information.
_________________
Bruce Valeriani - Mix Engineer

true enough blue bear sound..nevertheless..i dont think i should just give up just because i dont have some information that i may need right?

its funny that a few of you pointed out all the things about it being impossible..but has no points to support that statement..i dont even know where to start researching and where to start understanding the ''impossible'' part..

im sure you would feel the same if someone were to tell you something its impossible..and you ask why ..they just tell you ..''go read up..its just impossible''...i suppose forum works more than just that?

sorry if offended you in anyway..no offence intended..GOd bless!

Think of a pool of water, now drop 2 pebbles in the pool at different spots. Notice how the waves collide with each other?

Sound is similar in nature, when a sound is made, the waves move out like that puddle in the shape of a sphere from the source, except at 340 meters per second. Now take another sound, the waves will collide at every are within the distance the wave travels.

It is impossible to take a microphone and attempt to capture only one of the sounds, unless like BBS already pointed out they are completely isolated from one another. On a drumset, this of course is impossible because to completely isolate the individual instruments, how will the musician play?

Sound waves also travel through different mediums, like your microphone body , so the waves will be absorbed and transferred through that also.

Indeed, what you want to do is impossible.

You gave the example of defying gravity.. that is a different concept... that is creating a force to counteract another force.

Fair enough explaination?

MUDBOY wrote:
I know that if you want to take 100% of source, you have to put your mic to an 1.5 times the source size , in distance... if you have a sound source that max surface got 1 meter, you have to put the mike like a 1.5 meters away, but imagine a drum set.

Sorry - not true.... 100% is impossible when then are multiple sound sources - there's is ALWAYS *some* bleed, no matter how close you get. Whether the bleed is significant or not depends on the application/context, but there is never 100% isolation unless the sound sources are physically isolated from each other.

I say it in a theorically way... the SPL acoustics tests of a source that produce sounds, are like this, the sound field mic put in a 1.5 times away, the source max size... and the enviroment plays a big rol in this test, cause you get non direct sounds too...
but note that i don't say that the isolation is possible, and think that a drum set or percussion set will got the mikes too far . Unless like this kind of sound HEHEHE!!!!! i don't think...

GL!!!!!
MARTIN

You gave the example of defying gravity.. that is a different concept... that is creating a force to counteract another force.

Fair enough explaination?[/quote]


creating a NEW force to counteract another force..

i think you miss the word ''NEW" out..who would had thought of this "force'' if they didnt spend time and effort for researching,thinking and developing it? is everyone suppose to just stay put and accept everything as it is without trying to get something new out of other raw ''force'' and nature to do some improvisation towards the fixed nature that seems impossible to be altered or changed in its ways?

interestingly..i do think the way sound works is indeed fixed in it ways..that's because it is its nature..and that i agree..the water cripple and all that..i already studied that in my course..but no one says you cant improvise the way it is or at least like i mentioned above..researching something new to change it?

anyway ..thanks alot phone ranger.. now i feel more ''directioned'' into where i should start researching and solving the ''impossibles''..

i would like to have more comments about this topic though..

and one more question..if this mic really DO exist..would you buy it? if so why? if no...why too?

Thanks for reading guys !

and .....one more question as well ( i hope im not asking too much! )
erm..like i asked before..which mic does the closest to that ''impossible''? (polar pattern) ..is it shotgun? or cardiod..hyper cardiod..etc etc?

*sigh*

There is no mike that will do this, pattern is irrelevant. Sound waves from the different sources will fill the area. No matter which pattern your mike is, it will not isolate a single source, period.

I am done trying to help you with this.

I didn't understand a single thing MUDBOY wrote, so I can't comment on it other than to say - you need to start making sense!

It's not as simple as finding a pattern that has the most direct pickup field (such as a hyper-cardioid), while it's true that a hypercardioid will reject more off-axis sounds, it also causes anomalies in the frequency response, which is why hypercardioids are virtually never used outside of film/TV production (where they find the trade-off in response vs. directionality acceptable) -- in a recording studio that trade-off is considered unacceptable because it compromises too much of the sound quality.

So that property alone is a huge barrier to what you want to do -- even if you could create a mic that blocks all sounds but the source you're aiming at, the frequency response would be so comprised as to make the sound unusable.
_________________
Bruce Valeriani - Mix Engineer