Hey, I figured something out today that may be really useful.

What is the typical, standard calibration for an electronic MIDI keyboard in Hertz?? When I tune and sing to my guitar I want to make sure I'm singing in the exact correct note and calibration.

I just figured out that with any electric chromatic tuner, you can usually adjust the calibration. So what I did was adjust my chromatic tuner to my keyboard at 432 Hz. Now I can tune my guitar to match the keyboard/piano perfectly. And now when I practice to my guitar--I wont be singing flat or sharp. So when I go to record, the tuning will match up perfectly to any pads, piano, or other sounds that my engineer puts in the mix for me!

Wow, what a little bit of knowledge can do for ya.

Any comments??

Yes, huge reply.

Standard tuning of any concert instrument is a = 440. If you drop your instruments to 432 and try to get other instrumentalists to play, you will be slightly flat. Of course, if it's just your instruments, as long as they are in tune with themselves and each other it makes no difference what you tune to. (Look at Korn)

But, I don't understand how dropping 8 hertz makes a difference when you sing to your guitar, as long as the guitar is in tune with itself it should not matter with your voice. I also doubt that your keyboard makes a difference, if you hook up MIDI to a digital sampler for example, unless you have your master tune down 8 hz (which most midi controllers do not even have) the sampler will play the notes as A = 440 hz.

Now, there is also something called "Pythagorean tuning" and "Well-Tempered tuning" that you could be hearing but that is maybe a different discussion. The difference happens a lot with guitarists, they tune their guitar to where it sounds perfect for playing "E" but when they go to play a "G" all of a sudden it is out of tune.

Thanks for that reply. That'll give me some more things to study and type into Google.

Yeah, I was wondering about that--what standard tuning is, so I'm glad that you told me. My keyboard is out of tune then; it's really old and I just use it to practice my vocals to. unfortunately the family piano must be flat as well... with both the keyboard and the piano being flat I was led to believe my guitar tuning was sharp, but I guess not. lol

At any rate, it's some useful information.

Well, I will elaborate on 'Well Tempered" tuning a little then.

Back in the day, around the late 1600s, people used to tune their instruments to a single key where the 5th is "perfect" meaning no vibrations when playing the notes together. This allowed the intruments to be in perfect tuning for that one key, but they could not modulate beyond that too much, past 1 key either way. (from C to G, or C to F)

J.S. Bach was the creator of "well tempered tuning" where he divided the octave into 12 steps, and we still have that today. He even made a set of preludes and fugues called "The Well Tempered Clavier." In this tuning, as you raise up the keyboard the 5th is tuned slightly flat, and as you lower down the keybard the 5th is tune slightly sharp, to make up for the "vibrations felt at the lower sounds"

Of course, it was not till later when music was associated with hertz, and where concert 'a' pitch became 440 hertz.. FYI, this is the 'a' that is played on the 2nd fret on the g string. SO, of course if you try to tune your guitar perfectly, the open 'A' will sound a little sharp, so this you do need to tune a few cents flat.

Your best bet is to tune your guitar to a in tune piano, where the A is started at 440 hertz. The octave lower A is one would think being A - 220 hertz, but due to well tempered tuning is actually closer to 222 hertz... It is a little difficult to grasp, but I hope you are getting the point...

Thanks for that again Rhone. Apparently there is another Temperament called "Equal Temperament." I studied it a little bit, but I have to confess, I know very little about music theory, (however, I am going to be taking a class on it). The math behind it still confuses me a little, however, I think I understand what you mean. As you go up and down the scales, the notes are not perfectly pure unless they're adjusted to be so. Exactly 2/3 of an octave--the fifth--is not perfectly in tune to other octaves, unless adjusted slightly.

So is all I need to do (other than tuning to 440 hertz) would be tune the 3rd, G string slightly flat to get an ideal tuning?

This whole thing came about in my attempts to not sing flat. lol And that's where the piano came in, so that I could practice singing "right on" the note. Trying to sing to guitar chords can be a sloppy process. But, now I'm actually breaking down each of my chords to figure out the exact pitch of each note I've been trying to sing to, and then playing each note individually on the guitar while singing to it in order to memorize the correct pitch. I tend to sing more from memorization than I do from accompaniment anyhow, being a solo guitarist and somewhat sloppy...

Basically, I think you've explained to me the details of intonation. One thing I hope I am doing right is to tune to a fretted note on the 12th fret. (Are those statements correct?)

I'm not the best at tuning to a piano yet, which is why i go the electronic tuner route... I think I'll start to develop the ear. At least it will be to a 440 hertz calibration now.

Thanks for your knowledge,

-Allen

Well, "Well Tempered" and "Equal Tempered" are essentially the same thing.

As far as guitar tuning, I personally use a harmonic tuning technique, or to a tuner, or if I am playing with a piano player, to their piano. Until you know what you are listening for, don't try to make your guitar "equal tempered." Actually, if you try to well temper your guitar, the E,A,D strings are just a little "sharp" the G is actually exact, and the B and High E are tuned just a touch flat, but very unnoticable.

Now, on to the real issue... a way to sing better, and to NOT sing flat.. Think 'above' the note, (of course exact is the right way, but it is better to be a touch sharp than a touch flat..) and to practice different parts of the scale singing while skipping notes... like

Do Re Mi Sol Sol Mi Re Do (C-D-E-G-G-E-D-C)
Re Fa Sol Ti Sol Fa Re (D-F-G-B-G-F-D) etc. This will help you develop your tone as well as technique.

If you did this to "sing"better, you are actually not fixing the problem accurately. You are adjusting the instrument, instead of developing the voice. That is like the solo violin telling the piano to tune up.....

Yeah, I think I see what you mean, no matter what my tuning may be, I'd be singing slightly flatter than it anyway, so it's the singing technique is what I need to focus on to avoid singing flat.

Actually, I think following each note has helped me in accuracy. Another thing that I think is helping me is to sing more openly and relaxed. I listen to a lot of musicians who strain their voices and was mimicking them until somebody told me it is a bad habit--as those musicians are most likely damaging their voices... and probably still sound so good on their pro recordings because of a pitch correcter. Where as live their voices are more gravely... it's sort of a popular style in some ways, but probably not too wise.

The reason why I like to tune to a fretted note is because fretting a note actually sharps the note slightly. So this way my tuning is actually what I get once fretting the note, as opposed to tuning to an open note. So what I've been doing is fretting a note on the 12th fret, while using the electronic tuner, and then plucking the string half the distance between the fretted note and the bridge. Does this work you think? It seems to sound pretty good when I tune it that way. However I notice that I'm perfectly in tune at the 12th fret, but any other note gets slightly flat down the neck, such as fretting at the 1st fret.

I'm playing a Seagull Artist Mosaic acoustic-electric. It's a pretty nice guitar, it can really shine sometimes.

I'm going to try the well tempered tuning you described, even if just for kicks, and see what it produces.

Interesting subject.

It is correct that you can tune to anything you want, as long as everyone else is in tune with that.
Truth is, you can hardly hear the difference with 8hz.
Many problems can occur in tuning though.

When you tune a guitar to the open strings, it might not be in tune when you fret it.
(A way to find out if your guitar is in tune with it self is to to harmonics on the 12th fret, and then seing if the fretted note on the 12th fret is exactly the same). Most guitar will be slightly out anyway once you get passed the 12th fret, so what most people do is tune it to the high octave when they are recording the solos.
Now the bass will need to be tuned to itself aswell, and you can tune the drums accordingly. I know Tool usually tune their drums to whatever key the song is in.

What you can use the HZ for finding the guitars perfect resonance. I know Gibsons have a specific frequency where they sound best (individual for each instrument). But you will need all sorts of equipment to find it.

Having said that... most recordings are not in perfect tune, nor in perfect time.
I have heard of people tuning everything slightly down, and slowing it slightly down and then speeding everything up again in the post production.

Also very heavy and full sounding guitars that are dubbed are not in perfect tune or time. Thats what makes em sound good. Its a natural chorus effect.

Orchestras, especially are never in perfect tune with eachother either. Its what makes it sound so brilliant. Ask 5 violins to play the same C, and they cant do it. You will hear it as the same, but put it through a machine and it will tell your otherwise.
Am I making any sense?